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Author Topic: offshore cruising  (Read 1992 times)
The Walkers
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« on: October 06, 2004, 04:28:33 pm »
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We really have our eyes on this 1979 P-D 26. Hoping for a trailerable boat to gain experience with here-and-there before eventually, some day, heading on down thru the islands, maybe South America, etc. Had this boat appraised:

    1st surprise: Fin keel (1200 lbs lead, 3ft 6in draft).

Is this common? I was counting on the swing keel for trailering here and there as we gain experience, but I might choose to suffer this in exchange for (I hope) increased stability.

   2nd surprise: The appraiser says "Navagational Limits: Coastal".

I was sure I'd read about Parker Dawsons crossing oceans. So, in thinking maybe the current condition of the vessel being the limiting factor, I e-mailed the appraiser about the fin keel/trailerability in comparison w/Pacific Seacraft (I read "20 Small Sailboats..." by John Vigor) and also asked what upgrades would be required for blue water voyages?  I got this polite but firm reply:

"You are correct this is a full keel boat.  I think the trailerability is more in keeping with the Seacraft.  I do not believe that the vessel would or should be used as an offshore sailing vessel.  It was neither designed or built for that purpose and to venture offshore in it in any state of upgrade would be dangerous."

I love this design -not to mention the affordability.  But are we going to outgrow this boat?

 
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2004, 12:02:36 am »
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Well, u can check the 1980-81 edition of "The small boat journal" and see what they say. They have a very nice artical about it. The dawson has survived 70+ knot winds and also in the artical it says that it has lots of world a few times and in some of the harshes conditions.

If you cant find the the issuee in ur local library I can scan and or type out the artical for any interested.

I am going to be sailing to SA. hopefully this year. so plan to keep the site updated.

 
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« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2004, 08:59:03 am »
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I would love to hear more about your plans to sail to SA.  What route and timeframe. I have been sailing here in Iowa in some fairly heavy winds, the 30s, and feel that a small storm jib and maybe a storm trysail or small alternate main would be a great addition to the boat.

I did talk to one Dawson owner who sailed his boat to Venezuela.  They had a rough trip down, so rough that one crew member flew home saying they would never make it back.  They did make it back with no further problems.

There is a Dawson for sale in Hawaii.  I was thinking of trying to get in touch with the owner to see what sort of experiences he has had in the big time.  I have heard, maybe even here, that someone has sailed a Dawson all over the Pacific.  Does anyone know who he/she is or have any of the articles about such ventures?

I am sadly pulling my boat on Saturday, marking the end of its first season.  Wishing you all the best!

Bob Dubuque
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« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2004, 01:38:46 pm »
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I have a '77 PD and the original owner sailed it to Bermuda from the East Coast.  I don't know his name as I bought it from a subsequent owner but that was a statement that I remember being made. I may be able to find out more about that trip and will post it for you.

 
Parker
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2004, 08:50:10 am »
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The offshore record of PD26s is documented, but your surveyor may have objected to a few design aspects. The aft cabin creates higher than usual windage and two companionways means twice as much potential for water to go below. The cockpit drains are small relative to the potential volume of water in the cockpit, and the companionways don't have bridgedecks, ie they go down within a few inches of the cockpit sole so water can rush below in a knock down. I plan to create a watertight seal on the engine hatch and gasketted lower companionway boards that will latch in place. The high, set-back coamings are good offshore design however, and they should keep almost all water on deck running off. You should ask your surveyor to explain his comments. Was it the general condition or equipment  of the boat or design aspects?

 
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2004, 11:17:36 am »
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"That was until he heard of the extraordinary exploits of one Bob Lengyel and his Dawson 26 named the Prodigal. What Lengyel had done was to trail the Prodigal from the West Coast to Virginia Beach, launch and then sail through Hurricane Blanche to England. That venture alone should have been proof enough of the vessel's versatility, but it wasn't enough for Leengyel. He promptly raced back across the ocean in the Observer Single-handed Transatlantic Race (OSTAR) in which 53 other mostly larger competitors were either disabled of sunk; sailed east again for Bermuda and thence to Britain once more. The 1980 OSTAR Race Committee, although much chastened by the tragic events surrounding the '76 race as well as the recent Fastnet, unquestioningly approved Lengyel's entry for 1980.

Lengyel wrote of the Prodigal on his return to the US: "I have taken her through just about every imaginable condition of sea and weather, and I have never regretted her purchase. After sailing her over 10,000 miles, she continues to surprise me with her ability to take care of herself when I have been unable to, during storms or because of injury or exhaustion. She has never suffered a structural failure, and she is as sound today as the day I bought her."" - 1980-81 edition of "The small boat journal"

I do agree with parker on his post though and you should ask the surveyor to explain his comments. Anyways just liked that artical above so posted it for everyone.

 
LLoweke
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 05:47:18 pm »
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I believe the appraiser made his comments to reduce his liability concerning law suits.  Small boats in the ocean can be dangerous, and if he approved it for ocean travel and the boat sunk or someone was killed, he would be in a poor legal position.

 
blackflute
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« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2004, 10:09:46 am »
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Not wanting to be a curmudgeon but it is in my blood so I can't help. <g>

Seriously, I would be extremely leery of anything this appraiser tells you. Three things in particular:

  • The term 'appraiser' - This may be your term and not his. But they are known as 'surveyors' not 'appraisers'.

  • A lead keel - While this is possible, I have owned a fixed-keep Midship 25 (Hull # 72) for more years than I care to think about. In all of my research I have never seen reference to a lead keel. I am fairly certain that all Midship/Dawson/ParkerDawson boats (swing and fixed keel) were built with iron keels.

  • The term 'full keel' - Here (due to the quotes) I am assuming that this is in the expert's words. A full keel is a keel that goes (at least most of) the length of the boat. As in schooners of yore (America, Elise, etc.). The MS/D/PD boats were all equipped with a fin keel, usually retractable.


These may sound like nit-picks but ... no self respecting sailor let alone surveyor who is qualified to survey a sailing vessel would misuse the language this way. Unless you have changed his language, he sounds to me like someone who is used to 'appraising' 20 foot Bayliners in his spare time.

As far as offshore ... Lowell is correct, any small boat offshore can be dangerous. On the other hand, these hulls are very strong. The fixed keel version is a better sailor than is the swing keel and many of the swing keel boats have been used offshore.

The weakest point I have found is the aluminum rudder cage. Life in open water is a real drag without a rudder, that (and maybe heavier rigging a la Prodigal) should have your first attention.

Someone mentioned bailing equipment ... I don't have a problem with the companionways (properly used) but the cockpit scuppers are on the puny side. Even given this, most of my Midship sailing is in the Western Basin of Lake Erie. When the wind blows, our water stands up: very tall with an extremely short frequency. This means waves breaking over the boat and I have never had grave concerns about her sinking. And breaking waves will be the bulk of the water in the cockpit.

More important that anything that you do to the boat though ... experience ... see if you can crew on some blue water voyages in small boats. At the very least the US Power Squadron has some great 'book learning' resources.

Best of luck!
  -Tom

 
Tuffy
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« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2004, 04:04:42 pm »
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I agree with Tom's comments.  Keep in mind that there have been many ocean voyages in frail craft, not designed for such adventuring.  A West Wight Potter recently made a trip from California to Hawii and sailed among the islands as well.  He has since sailed the inland passage to Alaska from Seattle.  (He shipped the boat home from Hawaii)

No surveyor and most likely not the designer would have suggested such trips for that boat.  With preparation and very good luck, this sort of thing can be done.

I've just read an article the describes what is needed for an offshore boat.  It includes a lot of things that had not been obvious to me.  It also has an article written by a friend who did the Atlantic Circle at age 66 in a Nor'sea 27.  The  first several days were in survival conditions.  (The Midship 25 that did the Atlantic race etc. was somewhat modified. It would be helpful to know what he did.  Would someone plublish that article.?

I have several family members who have been involved in two trips to Burmuda from Cape Cod for one and from Norfolk for the other.  They both had the snot kicked out of them for days.  The boats were a Morgan 38 and a Valiant 40, well set up for the ocean.  In each case they took extra crew for that leg.

I hope you are reading all the books and magazine stories of people out cruising.  This should include Latitude 38 if possible.  Latitude 38 is a sailing magazine from San Francisco.  It gets a huge amount of reader input including cruising experiences.  Check their web page. <www.latitude38.com>  You might like their ,"Lectronic Latitude," which in on line update of the sailing world.

The two familiy members who are out cruising at the moment are in the Carribean right now and relating their experience through their simple web page. They are two brothers who started in early November from Cape Cod.  I'll have to list the long web page URL in another message.

Steve in San Jose






 
Tuffy
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2004, 12:30:00 pm »
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TWO ACTIVE PERSONAL CRUISING WEBSITES
We have two young men who did not want to join YUPEEDOM right after college.  They are underway in the Carribean in the first phase of a 3 year adventure.  < http://Http://bellshouthpwp.net/c/o/cook9374 >  

Our other friends are from our US Power Squadron group.  They have left San Francisco and are working their way south along the California coast.  Check them out. < www.shaimas.com >

Read their experiences so far, then when you can, follow them from time to time.  Good input if you are planning to head out yourself.

Steve in San Jose

 
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