sejohnso
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« on: July 20, 2007, 01:10:45 am » |
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Due to a lack of parts for the Johnson/Evinrude 9.5 motors I'm going to be forced to retire the old Baldwin Saildrive unit (still works well just can't get many of the parts for the powerhead). Given the costs of a new sail drive I'm planning to convert my boat to a standard inboard. My decision at this time is going to be a Beta 10 which shows it should fit OK in the hold (It will fit tight however). What I'm lacking however is detail of current standard in-board set ups. My questions are many however these would help allot. 1.) Prop size, blade, pitch. 2.) prop strut details 3.) Prop shaft size 4.) Shaft log (how does the current prop shaft pass through the hull??
If anyone has photo's It would help immensely (I'm going to try to get this as close to the standard set up as I can).
Thanks, Steve Johnson 1973 PD 26 Attleboro, MA
Steve Johnson
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Steve Johnson
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sfisher
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2007, 03:57:49 am » |
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1. Have you been in contact with the Saildrive owners group on Yahoo Groups : They seem to find powerhead parts, but more trouble with the saildrive unit below the water line. I'd be inclined to plan an upgrade myself however.
2. The Beta looks good. I have the YSE8 Yanmar which might actually be 7 HP and it moves along OK. What alternator size will you have ?
3. I don't have many photos, but will try to find something that may help.
4. The Saildrive 280 and 330 would be a much simpler installation and I'd think the fuel usage would be reasonable.
Good luck, and keep us posted please. Steve
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Steve in San Jose Dawson 26, "Banana Split" Hull 270
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sfisher
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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2007, 06:09:31 pm » |
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Steve, Many diesel dealers have dummy engines that you can test-fit into your boat. Ask if Beta can do that for you. Could sale a lot of trouble. I had comparing equipment measurement to space available.
Steve
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Steve in San Jose Dawson 26, "Banana Split" Hull 270
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sfisher
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2007, 04:10:32 am » |
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Let me re-phrase that. I hate dealing with close measurements. Steve, send me a good email, and I'll send a copy of a rear view of the Yanmar YSE rear view, taken fromt he aft cabin. Steve sfisher896@aol.com
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Steve in San Jose Dawson 26, "Banana Split" Hull 270
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sejohnso
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2007, 12:59:54 am » |
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Steve, Thanks again for the information, It's very interesting to see that PD used a different enclosure for the Sail drive units versus the standard inboards. Baldwin drive: Was a great idea if parts could have been readily availible. My unit is actually in decent shape (have been very careful to take good care of it). Currents out here are strong and a loss of even a few rpm's could be very serious. It would be a good unit if tides are not too bad. In other words, I need allot of thrust out here and the current system is marginal (I can make 6 knots in calm water). Lastly, an engine failure would be deadly.
I did look at the SD 280 and 330 but want to avoid any more of the raw water cooled engines if I can. Initial cost would be lower but repair costs are $$$.
Steve Johnson
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sfisher
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« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2007, 10:17:27 pm » |
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Steve I seem to recall that the Beta 10 also had a Beta 13 of the same size. Why not go for it all >>
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Steve in San Jose Dawson 26, "Banana Split" Hull 270
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sejohnso
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« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2007, 02:23:45 am » |
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After looking at Yanmar, Beta, Vetus, Phasor, westerbeke and finally Univeral. My layouts have shown that only a Universal M3-20B will fit. 19.1" from hull to underside of hatch. I have physically tried layouts in CAD with Yanmar, Beta, Vetus,Westerbeke, and the Universal. I will try to post details on the install as I go forward.
Steve Johnson
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sfisher
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2007, 05:58:08 pm » |
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Steve, I have my boat on the trailer after having it towed home from Seattle. I'll be washing it today and will try to get photos of the strut and prop. It currently has a 3 blade, which was helpful in the San Juan Islands where wind can be hard to find. I have a two blade as a spare, so I'll get that our as well to get the numbers from it. These work with the Yanmar YSE 8 (7hp continous, 8hp for an hour) My Digital Camera just got crunched, so give me a few days.
Steve in San Jose Hull 26 "Banana Split" (Yellow Hull)
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Steve in San Jose Dawson 26, "Banana Split" Hull 270
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sfisher
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« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2007, 05:04:41 am » |
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Steve, I checked my props today. Two Bladed is 11X7. I have not used this one. The 3 Blade prop is 11X7 as well. This leads one to suspect that they do not perform in the same fashion. This engine has no tachometer, so hard to tell what results we are getting. No knotmeter either.
At least the engine does not smoke and seems able to do 5 1/2 knots and better most of the time. Steve Fisher in San Jose
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Steve in San Jose Dawson 26, "Banana Split" Hull 270
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sejohnso
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« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 02:31:01 am » |
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I now officially own a Universal M3-20B. Michigan wheel states it will turn a 16" prop to be ideal. I am planning about 14" by design to definitely fit my set up, not sure what exactly I'll end up with yet. With verifying measurements on the boat to the CAD model it became clear that the prop shaft angle and how the engine sits in the hold could create an interference problem. Best case angle was about 4-6 degrees without hitting the top of the hatch ext. Based on this it MAY have fit but I would not have much adustment to fine tune it. I also cut templates of full scale drawings in plywood for the sides and top view. These were very helpful, anyone planning such a project I highly reccomend this. Based on this info I opted for a ZF 15MA 8 degree down angle transmission for this job. It will allow the engine to sit essentially flat in the hold giving me a bit more adjustment to line everything up. I've got the old sail drive hole glassed up and the area for the bed all cut out (Hull by the way is 1"thick! no new boats like this one!) I may try to start glassing the beds in if I can get a slightly warm day. I'm also looking at options to drop the motor in. Don't want to injure either the motor or the boat. STEVE F.: If you ever got photos of the shaft log and prop stut layout it would be a bonus. Don't think my shaft log will be in the same spot (probably 12" further back) but it will be a very good aid.
Steve Johnson
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Steve Johnson
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sejohnso
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« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2008, 02:26:33 am » |
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Update: After much work the Universal M3-20b fits. I needed to use a ZF15MA downangle transmission 8 degree downangle). Nice part about this is that the engine sits almost perfectly level. used a 50" long 1" dia prop shaft and a buck algonquin epoxy in place prop strut. The layout has the prop strut exiting just in front of where the original prop strut was mounted. Prop location is about 2 feet from the rudder which I will expect should provide better steerage at lower speeds. Prop is a 13x9 and should push it nicely. I intend to do the sea trial tomorrow. Will post results. Lastly, This project is not for the faint of heart.... Had I not had the equipment readily available to do the work it probably would not have worked out.
Steve Johnson
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sejohnso
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2008, 02:26:52 am » |
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Update: Sea Trial complete. Flawless for the most part (engine leveling bolts loosened up a little). End result: Very quiet and incredibly smooth. Can cruise in calm to 3 ft seas at 7- 7.5 knots. Almost unaffected by rough seas... Top speed is 8.5 knots (it appears to be semi planing). Prop is a 13x9 Michigan wheel (MP series) and probably should be a 13x8 (close enough). Fuel economy was most interesting. I burned 3-4 gallons in over 40 miles of cruising. The baldwin saildrive had used at least 5 times that!! I'll post a follow up this fall with pictures if anyone is interested.
Last note: Some other posts have shown Beta repowers requiring the hatch to be raised. This is NOT required with the M3-20b. I was even able to re-use the original rear access panel (stair way). It is not evident there is a big motor in it until you open either the top or rear hatch.
Steve Johnson
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pprescott
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2008, 02:37:33 am » |
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I had my strut and prop reconditioned and the shaft realigned a few years ago. I will see if the boatyard has any of the spec's. Since the boat is out of the water, I'll take some pix and send them along, although it may be in a few weeks since I will be away for a week. My engine is the original Yanmar. --Parker Prescott
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rdubuque
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« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2008, 03:41:34 am » |
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Steve,
Congratulations on a huge project. I can only dream of 7+ knots in big chop with my Vire.
Bob
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sejohnso
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« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2008, 02:59:04 am » |
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Pics of the install shown. Anyone want more detailed photos's please let e-mail me (had difficulty sending these in low resolution... Re-paint planned in the spring for areas exposed.... Download Attachment: 100_0456.jpg93.98 KB Download Attachment: 100_0524.jpg121.57 KB Download Attachment: 100_0531.jpg187.68 KB Download Attachment: 100_0529.jpg102.12 KB Steve Johnson
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Steve Johnson
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