knotshore
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« on: June 14, 2007, 11:47:14 pm » |
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Does anyone know where the Keel pin is located?
LETS USE THIS THREAD TO DISCUSS THE KEEL MECHANISM 11/28/08 steve
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« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 02:03:40 am by sfisher »
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sfisher
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« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 03:10:05 am » |
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When you look at the file Bob offered, you will see two sets of Midship promotional drawings. Ignore the first set and pick up on the one lower down the page. The first one does not show how the winch and cable function, the lower does much better.
Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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admin
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« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2008, 07:43:09 am » |
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This is the pin that came with my boat and is the same as the one drawn on the other Midship web page. Screws into a 1" hole a few inches forward of the winch, in the same plate that hold the keel box in the boat. Steve Hull 270  |
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knotshore
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2008, 07:31:20 pm » |
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Steve thanks for the picture.I now know where the keel pin is located the pin that is in my plate is aluminum and broke off or deteriorated.Should the pin be made of material that will break before it causes damage? My hull#066 Thanks Russ
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sfisher
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2008, 02:35:05 am » |
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The pin is discussed in a few places and I'll try to summarize what little I THINK I know.
Early boats had a pin of around 1/2 diameter that did bend. According to John Alland, the pin was beefed up to it's present size about the time the manufacturing operation moved to Las Vegas.
The pin should not bend! Per Bob, when it is bent, it can be a bear to remove.
Unknown by me, is how the tapered larger Pin would fit in an early smaller pinhole on the top of the keel.
I'd bet that my pin is 304SS although some would vote for 316SS.
Bob (Fairwind) in Mexico strongly votes for the use of the pin. I suspect that he is the person with the most experience with our boat design. Sorry he lost his boat last year.
Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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rdubuque
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2008, 03:19:14 am » |
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Funny you mention this.
I finally got my bent pin out. In trying to see if I could straighten it out and use it again, it snapped right off. I think I am going to drill and tap a hole throught the top of the pin (mine is the earlier one about 1" in diameter) and screw in a bolt of an appropriate size.
If it bends I will have to cut it off with a hack saw but at least I will be able to pin it again.
Bob
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sfisher
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2008, 04:54:06 am » |
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Bob, any chance of a photo of the pin as it is, with some measurements? Wonder if the hole in the keel is the same for all boats.
Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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jhaley_100
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« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2008, 10:48:06 am » |
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I think I know the hole you are talking about. It is covered with tape currently in my boat. I had understood that the pin locks the keel in the down position. Is this correct? I am having a hard time understanding how a pin that is inserted into an unthreaded hole in the top of the keel will keep it down. Does the pin have other benefits? quote:
Originally posted by admin
This is the pin that came with my boat and is the same as the one drawn on the other Midship web page. Screws into a 1" hole a few inches forward of the winch, in the same plate that hold the keel box in the boat.
Steve Hull 270
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Midship 25
Hull #38
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rdubuque
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« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2008, 10:59:49 pm » |
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Since my pin snapped, I simply keep some tension on the cable at all times and have the winch handle pinned because by winch does not hold reliably.
You definitely do not want to let the keel just hang loose, especially in big seas.
Bob
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jhaley_100
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« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2008, 05:06:19 am » |
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My only experience with the PD up to this point is with lake sailing, so I guess I never noticed a problem. So the pin keeps the keel from moving fore and aft, correct? It provides no additional support for the pivot pin? I guess that without the pin you are provides lots of extra stress to the winch cable. quote:
Originally posted by rdubuque
Since my pin snapped, I simply keep some tension on the cable at all times and have the winch handle pinned because by winch does not hold reliably.
You definitely do not want to let the keel just hang loose, especially in big seas.
Bob
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Midship 25
Hull #38
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sfisher
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« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2008, 05:38:40 am » |
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From comments about the keel mechanism, it has been mentioned that the pulley is a weak point in the system.
1. Some boats have reported that the structure below the keel pulley has cracked. Some folks have rienforced the area.
2. Cable becoming jammed at the pulley. Cable slipped off the pulley and jammed ! This can happen if cable is a bit loose and jumps off the pulley, or the pulley itself is wobbling and allows the cable to slip off. Very difficult to get things back in place.
3. Keel Pilot Pin can rust/rot away and fail. We have at least one keel that has dropped to the bottom of the bay. I got the old pin when I got my boat. It should have failed before replacement, but luckily did not. Both ends were rotted.
Winter is coming. Let's all assure that this system is up to snuff.
Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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Chris Karo
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2008, 04:03:00 pm » |
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I was told from the original owner that the pin is to lock the keel when it is in the down position. Mine is frozen in place so I need to put that on my list, Things to do.
According to the original broshures and documentation the boat is self-righting weather the keel is up or down. Comforting to know!
Chris Karo
s/v Kimberly Marie
Midship 25
Plymouth MA
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Chris Karo
s/v Kimberly Marie
Midship 25
Plymouth MA
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sfisher
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« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2008, 05:18:59 am » |
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MORE ON KEEL PIN ISSUES
I have to admit, that it took a long time for me to figure out the keel system. On most trailerable boats, like the MacGregors and such, there are two pins used to support and to lock the keel in the down position.
On those boats, one horizontal pin Supports the keel and provides a pivot for raising and lowering the keel . This is supported by the fiberglass keel trunk.
A second horizontal pin is inserted when the keel is down, and passes through the keel and is supported by fiberglass structure in the keel trunk.
Often, the keel cable from a winch will attach further down the keel and often vibrates underway.
On the Midship,Dawson,Parker Dawson design, the keel is supported in a stainless steel box that fits inside the trunk and is supported in total from above by the same plate that supports the winch. (Winch/Keel box mounting plate) This plate supports the keel box with 10 bolts through the plate.
The pivot pin is supported by the stainless box, and is not accessable from inside the boat, or while the keel is installed in the boat. It is about 1" stainless round bar by 6 inches in length. It has cross holes near each end for cotter pins. It may use a washer at each end ??
The keel lockdown pin on our boats is installed vertically through a threaded hole in the the winch/keel box mounting plate when the keel is down. This pin also will avoid water splashing up through the hole.
A third pin which I'll call the Winch Cable Pin attaches the Winch Cable to the keel.
The Winch cable is 1/4 inch stranded wire cable of about 4 ft.
The Winch Cable Pulley, may be a little underdesigned for the loads it carries . The two examples I've seen had badly worn shafts, allowing the pulley wheel to wobble and potentially allow the cable to slip out of the groove and jamb in place. A not so nice situation as some owners may discuss. It looks like it has to be installed from under the boat ??
The MANUAL WINCH, is/was made by Boston Gear. Someone has reported that Boston Gear no longer supports this unit. As of two years ago, it was still shown on their web page with drawings. I'll post part numbers if nobody else gets them sooner.
Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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Steve in San Jose
Dawson 26, "Banana Split"
Hull 270
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